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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Bertrand Butler
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228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Stop being crybabies, all changed look good. Especially the worm.
CCP Rise wrote: We need a missile based pirate faction - yes! We didn't want to use an existing faction for this for a few different reasons (Imagine the rage if Angel turned into missiles or Guristas just became Caldari), but we would like to address it as soon as possible. I don't know when that will be, but it won't be never.
Glad to hear that, and thanks for a very nice re-balance thread...can you confirm at this point whether the faction will be one of the known candidates? (Thukker, Mordus Legion) C:
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Bertrand Butler
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228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
It goes without saying that it will be totally absurd to roll out the 2 drone policy the worm gets into the gila/RS.
We'll get 3 drones @200%. |
Bertrand Butler
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228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey guys,
We really need some more rants and complains to be going on in this thread please. All the confusion caused by the positive comments is getting to CCP Rise's head - he's becoming irrational and randomly attacking various people in the office. We'd use the straight-jacket to tie him up for a while, but it's currently being occupied by CCP Fozzie as he's having his daily drooling fit.
Thank you for your cooperation citizens.
ok.
WHY STILL 90% WEBS CCP RISE ARE YOU ******** OR STHPLZPLZ DO STH WITH THE DRAM NOONEWILL FLY IT AFTER THE CHANGESWTF ARE YOU DOING TO MY WORMWHY GIVEMISSILE DAMAGE TYPE BONUSES ARE YOU DENSE100% BONUS TO AB NONONO DAMN YOU MANWTFOPOPOPOPOP-WEB RANGE BONUS ANDNO BONUSRANGE TO NEUTNOS BLEUGH$#%2DRONES2 ******* DRONESONE DIES ONE REMAIN NERFEDNERF DUHNO NOSOLD MECHANICWTF OH ****.
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:christ 5km/s succubus... i know its a sandbox but surely limiting prop mods to their class size is sensible here like you do with guns etc...
i mean think about the size of a cruiser AB on a frigate wouldn't it rip the thing apart or something
Don't worry, we've been doing it for years. The agility, fitting and tracking penalties make the fit fine.
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 18:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:So, I Decided to do some early comparison (and I am using the Worm as the base template here for the Rattlesnake).
Assuming the following:
- Caldari Battleship skill: 10% bonus to Torpedo, Cruise Missile, and Heavy Missile Thermal/Kinetic damage/level
- Role bonus: Heavy drones get +37.5% bonus to damage
- Rattlesnake can field 2 heavy drones
- No change in launcher numbers
For comparison reasons, I am assuming all level 5 skills, as well as only weapon systems being present, no damage modifiers or tank modifiers.
The Scorpion Navy Issue in it's current iteration surpasses it. The Rattlesnake will bring slightly more tank, and with an extra low slot can fit either a Drone Damage Amplifier or Ballistic Control Unit more than the Scorpion Navy Issue. However, even using Thermal or Kinetic torpedoes the Rattlesnake falls behind the Scorpion Navy Issue by ~150 DPS. The Scorpion Navy Issue can field 6 launchers, where-as the Rattlesnake can field 4. The SNI also has a RoF bonus, meaning that the damage bonus is applied evenly to all forms of damage.
In this case, the Scorpion Navy Issue wins out.
You cannot do a comparison for a ship that is not balanced yet. As said by Rise, the damage multi, drone type and drone bandwidth for Gila and RS can (and probably will) be different than what seen in the worm. |
Bertrand Butler
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228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 18:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Everything seems reasonable to me until I get this this bit... CCP Rise wrote:
Role Bonus:
300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints
... which just seems icky. I would prefer to see 5 light drones fielded with a 150% modifier to drone HP and damage, which is roughly the same effect but somewhat more elegant and in keeping existing mechanics. I am interested as to the reason for choosing a limited number of drones with a very high multiplier (which seems difficult to justify in any reasonable narrative). If it was because of concerns about server performance, I would argue that these concerns are unwarranted.
The fact that your flight will do the equivalent damage of 8 drones until an equivalent of 4 of them are killed eludes you? Or the fact that your frigate stores now the equivalent of 20 scout drones? |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 18:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
The fact that your flight will do the equivalent damage of 8 drones until an equivalent of 4 of them are killed eludes you? Or the fact that your frigate stores now the equivalent of 20 scout drones?
If I understand you correctly you are saying that the 2-drone solution creates a longer delay before drone damage is reduced by someone killing your drones, whereas in the 5-drone solution your damage is reduced more linearly.
None of this was lost on me (thank you for the unnecessary implied ad-hominem). I cannot see that it will have a significant effect on overall damage output when replacement drones are used during the course of a fight.
Mechanics (and sniping) aside, my position remains unanswered. In what narrative would the same drones suddenly become 4 times as strong merely by being controlled by a given ship?[/quote]
No ad-hominem intended, really. Sorry for that, my english is not perfect.
What I am trying to say is that if you do the math, the overall damage output will be much higher. Even with adjustments for multiple targeting/weapon cycling. More benefits for the bonus would be added resilience against EoE (sbs) and npcs, server optimization if/when scaling becomes an issue, good scaling of rigs like the drone durability enhancer for example (that went unused due to a nasty CPU bite, more effective drone bay capacity (20 scout drones for the new worm etc).
The downsides for this change would be a nerf to versatility when using the hull as a drone boat (by tying the bonus to a specific drone type and removing effective bandwidth for other types).
Overall, I really like it, and can already think of a couple of PvP applications that will make the hull very good (hell, the Taipan was better than it before the change).
Regarding your lore/narrative objection, think about all hulls that get big bonuses, from turrets/launchers to rep modules etc. Thats the same turrets and launchers used in other ships without getting the bonus. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 19:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:the problem here is that the idea of Rise is to make them full drone users and take out the bonus to missiles, i think it would make more sense to give them a unique role with drones, and increase their missile bonus, make them shine with one or the other, or both......not make it yet another drone boat...
The worm got a damage buff for both missiles and drones. What are you talking about?
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
228
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:another version for the guristas:
WORM
Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints
Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile damage
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40
the ship gets at full lvl V skills a 100% of damage for drones and a 100% bonus to missiles, but sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus. as compensation the ship gets a buffer in line with the rattlesnake, i mean, gets large buffer for its ship class, in this case a more than 1000 shield HP
For the love of Cerberus - the guardian of my soul, stop shitposting loadouts. Step away from the keyboard for an hour or twelve.
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
230
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Guys, do you understand that with this change a worm will do 160DPS before DDAs with 2 RF Warriors that with a durability rig (nice 20CPU increase there Rise) will each have 3.3k HP before resists? |
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
230
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Bertrand Butler wrote:RF Warriors why would you do that
I already do in an Algos, with great effect I might add. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
230
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Posted - 2014.02.25 23:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:
suddenly people doing L4s in a rattlesnake with only 2 sentries.......and only with kinetic/thermal ammo
If we get what I'm [not-so-secretly] hoping for, the Rattler will become a non-sentry drone platform! ^^;
With 3 cruiser like ogres..C: |
Bertrand Butler
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230
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:About the Worm, i think some of you are missing the point, overpowered is not a synonym of fun.
The Worm should remain a shield tanked frigate(Caldari) with 5/10 drones(Gallente), balance the ship bonus around this.
But after the changes come Worm will remain a shield tanked frigate(Caldari) with 8/20 scout drones(Gallente). What is the unfun part about the balancing pass you keep talking about? |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
230
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just finished calculating the EHP for a RF warrior with a T2 durability rig.
Raw
962.5
1437.5
900
Shield Omni perDT
240.62
300.77
401.03
601.55
Armor Omni perDT
898.43
653.40
479.16
399.30
Structure
900
Total
240.62
300.77
401.03
601.55
898.43
653.40
479.16
399.30
900
_____
4,874 EHP for one drone with a 25m sig and a speed of 750/5250. Not bad. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
230
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:
I bet a 5(bandwith)/10(bay) drone ship with 600% bonus would be even better right?...
It would be demonstratively worse, since it would make the equivalent of 7 drones. Now we have 8. |
Bertrand Butler
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230
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
why? |
Bertrand Butler
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232
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Posted - 2014.02.26 13:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Some points about the Cruor.
1. The new role bonus combines both the old role and the race damage bonuses into one. You will get exactly the same DPS, learn to read bonuses.
2. The AB buff together with the 37.5% tracking bonus will result in an AB kiter that can dictate range with beams that track like pulses and mitigate damage via sig tanking.
3. If you fit the ship for scram brawl with pulses, it will still retain the weather gauge with one web applied on it against AC or blaster brawlers while hitting solidly with scorch.
Overall, its a very interesting take on a hull that was plain garbage before the re-balance. Stop whining and start adapting your gameplay to the hull, not the opposite. |
Bertrand Butler
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232
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Posted - 2014.02.26 14:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:
First of all, thank you for your amusing post. At the same time as telling us all to learn to read, you display that you also do not understand how to read yourself, (I think you mean Succubus not Cruor), and also in the same post you display you cannot complete basic mathematic sums as you incorrectly calculated the new damage bonus by simply adding the two existing bonuses together, (it doesn't work like that). Thank you again for your amusing post.
Ok, let me show you the power of 2nd grade primary school math.
1.
Starting damage 100%
+
5% damage bonus per level at lvlV gives a 25% damage bonus
100+25=125% damage
+
100% damage bonus
125+100=225% damage
2.
Starting damage 100%
+
125% damage bonus
100+125=225% damage
Go back to school. now. Damage bonuses are both applied ON THE BASE DAMAGE, you don't up the damage via the first bonus and THEN apply the second one. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
232
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Posted - 2014.02.26 14:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
But...but making an ass out of yourself shows spirit..right?...right?..XD
I'm wrong, it loses half an effective turret. I think the other points stand though. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
248
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Posted - 2014.03.05 00:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Joe Boirele wrote:The AB bonus wasn't supposed to do much on the nightmare, because Rise is happy with it where it is right now.
This. The Amarr damage bonus will probably be merged to the role bonus on the hull too to make room for the AB, so the NM will just get a little more versatile. Don't expect any big buffs for the NM, CCP is content with it.
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
248
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Posted - 2014.03.05 05:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rabbit P wrote:I want to clarify one thing
Energy Vampires fit on blood's ship continue to leech from the target until their cap reaches zero,
then in the next cycle NOS will get nothing until target recharge a bit? or NOS can still 'generate' cap even the target has no cap left?
If the target has 0 cap, you get 0 cap I think. Its also almost impossible to have 0 cap though, even if you are capped out in a cycle you will get some cap before the module cycles again.
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Bertrand Butler
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250
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:well if they follow the worm pattern .. they will bonus heavies only
I think that a possible RS bonus will apply to sentries and heavies alike, but the drone bay will go to sth like 125mbit storage. Also, Rise has said that the guristas role bonus is not chained to 2 drones only as we have seen in the Worm, so we might get 3 or 4 bonused drones for the hull with a different role bonus percentage.
The concept is indeed very nice. It will differentiate Guristas from other drone ships enough to make it viable/desirable, while bringing some new tactics to gameplay both for brawling and gang support. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
250
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:
well it would make no sense to bonus sentries .. the design intent is clearly for brawling only .. keeping it to 2 or 3 drones max will prevent using off bonused drones i.e. sentries ... so only armour based gallente ships will be sentry boats
Why? With no damage projection or tracking bonuses for drones, and no application of projection bonuses to missiles, sentries in a RS hull would serve very well as an alternative to heavies in brawling or fleet use. Having limited bandwidth but no sentry bonus would kill the hull (we already have 10 BS T1/faction/pirate hulls that can put out 5 sentries, with or without bonuses). |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
250
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:
For all of you saying that the Rattlesnake and Gila will probably be able to field a full flight of drones and there's nothign saying otherwise, let me quote the OP for you:
I don't think that anyone called for a full flight. Here is what you are looking for.
CCP Rise wrote:Ashley Animus wrote:There would be no need to continue the 300% drone bonus on the gila and rattlesnake. Serpentis and Angel ships also don't have a consistant bonus for their damage.
Daredevil 200%
Vigilant 75%
Vindicator 37.5%
Dramiel 100%
Cynabal 25% ROF and 10% damage per level
Machariel 25% ROF and 5% damage per level
The only consistant ones were sansha and blood and now sansha is leaving blood behind on that too it seems. ^^
Bolded the relevant parts.
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Bertrand Butler
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251
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Posted - 2014.03.05 17:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just quoted what Rise hinted at.
Right now, the worm gets a double limitation to its drone bonuses.
1. Bandwidth (limiting effective bandwidth to 10mbit)
2. Drone type (limiting the bonus to scout drones only)
There is no arbitrary hull limit on the number of drones you can field (since its not needed). When we do get to Gila or the RS though, an arbitrary limit might be the only way to keep the ships balanced. If not, we are going to get a Drone type limit that chains the hull to a particular drone type (for example, scout/medium drones in the Gila and heavy/sentry drones to the RS). |
Bertrand Butler
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252
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Posted - 2014.03.05 18:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:Gila/Snake
50% damage bonus as normal.
50mbit bandwidth
250% damage/hp bonus to heavy and sentry drones (and logi drone heal amount plox).
drone bay unchanged.
7.5 effective drones no matter what type is used (not 8 Cry). The heavy/sentry bonus just means it can carry tons of extra drones. Same dps, net effect increased drone bay (well why the hell not). No need to specifically limit # of drones.
The problem with the drone bay is that if you leave it as is then you encourage blobbing drone assist. If you think about it, a RS like the one you described would be able to field 12 sets of sentry drones. Thats the equivalent of a 1500mbit drone bay for sentries. At the same time, the big HP bonus would make RS sentries very resistant to removal (SBs or bombing runs). And the big damage bonus would circumvent the recent drone assist nerf (by moving the limit from 50 to 187.5 sentries).
I think that we are going to see something like this if the 300% is applied:
Gila
Gallente Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
Caldari Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus:
300% bonus to light and medium combat drone damage and hitpoints
Bandwidth: 20mbit
Drone Bay: 50mbit
RS
Gallente Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage
Caldari Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus:
300% bonus to heavy and sentry combat drone damage and hitpoints
Bandwidth: 50mbit
Drone Bay: 125mbit |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
252
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Posted - 2014.03.05 18:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:i think that would be a mistake ... it gives too much versatility .. and kind of impedes on gallente droneboats..
How?
1. The double limitation kills versatility (no utility or ewar drone HP bonuses, no ability to field a flight of med utility/ewar in gila, or heavy utility/ewar in RS.
2. There is no bonus to drone damage projection (range) or damage application (tracking, speed). Thats where the Gallente drone boats excel.
Batelle wrote:
Edited my earlier post because I wrote 250% when i meant 150%
Yeah, that changes it, you can have a bigger drone bay if you go for 150%. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
252
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Posted - 2014.03.05 18:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Batelle wrote:
Gila would be complete garbage in that form. 9 effective mediums and 4.5 effective launchers is pretty bad dps. Only complaint on the snake is the lack of bonused lights. 125m3 drone bay is UNJUSTIFIABLY SMALL. Like.. the drone bay situations is way worse and way less versatile than the current snake. Make it 250m3 at least.
Thats 9 effective mediums (3x10mbit bandwidth @300% damage/HP.
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
253
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Posted - 2014.03.06 01:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I have no idea where you get that the dram does 1/3 more damage from.
Did you notice the difference in falloff?
Here is a table for DPS, no rocket launchers.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/Dante80/bellycancer/06-Mar-1403-10-27_zps6fac086b.png |
Bertrand Butler
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253
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Posted - 2014.03.06 19:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:not engaging isn't really a good counter
not engaging isn't really the only counter. Its not like Vindicators are invincible or sth.. |
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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
254
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Posted - 2014.03.06 19:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
What I am trying to say is that they are silly, but totally viable if kept on a couple of pirate hulls. You still got a shitload of options for dealing with them, and they do not posses the numbers to alter the meta. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
261
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Posted - 2014.03.08 09:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Quote:The reality is that if you fit two webs on a standard, unbonused ship or two ships with a web you almost have the same effect as the serp bonus.
Thats not even close man. 2 serp webs will get you down to 2% speed or so... |
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